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The Gazette KCRG
Posted September 1, 2009
Gay clergy?

The nation’s largest Lutheran denomination, with more than 4 million members, voted last month to expand its policies regarding gay clergy in the pulpit.

The Evangelical Lutheran Church in America, which had long allowed celibate gay men and women to be ordained as pastors, voted to allow gay and lesbian men and women in committed relationships be ordained and serve as pastors in its churches. No congregation is bound by the policies and each can make its own decision, but by expanding the opportunity the denomination has opened the door.

Some readers have raised questions about the use of terms such as “sexually active”  — or sexuality at all — in reference to gay clergy, possibly forgetting that Iowa is just one of now five states that allows same-sex marriage. In the other states, there are no marital ties linking those committed relationships.

Other readers, seemingly those who support the issue, question why a pastor’s sexuality is even an issue.

The ELCA population is split on the issue, with some pastors and congregations across the country threatening to leave the denomination. Regardless, congregations will be discussing the vote in the weeks and months to come.

What are your thoughts? Should a pastor’s sexuality be an issue in whether — or how well — that person can  serve as a church leader?

80 Responses to Gay clergy?

  1. A person's sexuality is their own concern. The original Hebrew version of the Christian bible contained no reference to homosexuality as a sin. This was first added in the 16 hundreds by a translator who inserted his personal bias. It was removed, but then added again in 1964 when the bible was revised.

    • She should know , from what she claims it would seem that she had to have been there. It is hard to disclaim the whole religious thing until someone proves where this whole thing really came from. Until then one might want to keep the options open and not slam the door on what might be a good deal. It ain't that hard to do.

    • I think this is the one and only time I agree with you 100%

  2. It boils down to the word “leader”. In the churches I have attended the “leaders” serve as role models for young and old alike, therefore I do not agree that G/B/L’s should be in positions where they are looked upon as role models.

    • I don't happen to agree with anyone in a church being considered a role model. Brainwashed fools are not the best people to model your behavior after. I'm going to alter a quote of yours in order to show you something: In the churches I have attended the “leaders” serve as role models for young and old alike, therefore I do not agree that Black/Asian/Arab/Hispanic’s should be in positions where they are looked upon as role models. Isn't being prejudiced fun?

    • There's that "religious" tolerance and love for ALL people shining through bright and hypocritical as usual.

      • Being queer is nothing more than a deviant sexual preference and should not be awarded any more attention than it deserves.

        • You want to know about deviant? The Church teaches us that sex is dirty and disgusting and should be saved for the one you love.

          • Oh, and by the way, deviant behavior is any behavior there is a law against. Homosexuality is not deviant behavior.
            It is also not considered deviant in light of the scientific studies that show it not to be a choice.

          • Laws are man made rules which you discredit, Be consistent.

          • And too often laws are based on peoples biases instead of on verifiable data.
            This is why the marriage amendment was overturned on the basis of unconstitutionality.

          • That is a gross exaggeration. I believe the good book simply states that men and women should wait until the moment of holy matrimony has passed.

          • I must tell you, today you come up with good arguments.

          • At the church I attend sex is not looked at as being "dirty nor disgusting". It's when people take it out of the context that it was intended is when it becomes a sin. Sex is to be shared between a man and a women that are united in marriage. When it is practiced in under those conditions it is a wonderful thing. My pastor would tell you so.

        • At least you don't hide your bigotry.

          • Bigotry, my elbow. It’s none of my business who sleeps with who or what as long as it is within legal boundaries. Since when does a preference get you rights? Vegetarians don’t scream discrimination and demand laws be changed about menus. I believe in freedom of choice, but don’t shout discrimination over a mere preference.

          • When you called a gay person a "queer" that is considered bigotry. If you simply said the bible doesn't tolerate deviant behavior it would be one thing, but you slammed a person based on their sexual preference. Being gay is not illegal so why should they not have the same rights as you or I? As far as vegetarians go, the food industry decided there is a need for vegetarian meals. What does that have to do with being a gay clergy person?

          • I apologize for the misunderstanding, Granny, I’m not “slamming” anyone, nor do I hold any animosity toward any group, except liberals for ruining my country. A while back I took the term from the popular show Queer eye for the strait guy. It doesn’t seem one bit derogatory when they say it. Maybe you are too sensitive. I stand my ground, I associate leadership with role models, and being gay is not one of the values I seek in a role model. No more, no less. This is my opinion just like you have yours.

          • And Pete, you are entitled to your opinion, that is what great about this country (one of the few things here lately). I hate labels, queers, liberals etc. People are what ruined this country. Not a label. People are what will bring it back as well. Do you think a gay person is any less moral than you? Would you be a good role model because of who you sleep with? Just curious…

          • I want to hear Pete's reply to that well said post.

          • Granny, isn't wisdom supposed to come with age? If you hate labels you better eat your Wheaties because there's a whole world that labels mean a great deal to, like Americans, Canadians, Germans, Italians, and so on. What about professional labels like Professor, Doctor, Your Honor, Officer, Fireman, and Teacher to name a few. And don't forget Sailor, Marine, Ranger, Seal, Captain, Major, and General. All labels worthy of respect. All honorable. As for morals, all I can say is I humbly follow my faith in OUR Lord Jesus Christ, not Adam and Steve. Amen.

          • You are correct, there are many of them worthy of respect. Everyone is worthy of respect unless they do something to you, so you lose respect. Has a gay person disrespected you? As far as the labels go, you know what I am talking about. When people comment Liberals ruined your country, republicans did this, democrats did that, that is what I get upset about. People ruined this country. Liberals are a label, they can't ruin anything, but the people who are liberals can. It gets very frustrating when people point fingers and blame everyone else for what is wrong in this country. The lack of respect for each other, the lack of compassion, and the lack of caring is what will be the downfall of this country. What does it matter who is gay, who isn't, who is colored, who isn't, who is male, female, whatever. People are people and everyone deserves the respect and compassion you and I deserve and are entitled to. Isn't that what our Lord Jesus Christ wants for all of us. And that Adam and Steve saying is soooo last year.

          • Okay, Granny, you win. Liberal people ruined my country. No matter, if the shoe fits…

          • I guess I have the ability to see past someones bedroom where as you don't seem to be able to do that.

          • You forget Pete, those labels have never led to lynchings and denials of rights. Also, they are called job titles, not labels.

          • Yo, Footlong, since when is being a proud American a job title?

          • I think it's time for your nap, you're getting insulting now. And after you been so good too.

          • Being gay is not a value, it's a biological fact.

          • Says who? Gay scientists? You can get scientists to argue both sides of anything, just look at the fallacy of man made global warming. Or is it the liberal media? Now THERE is the holy fountain of truth we all can depend on.

          • So when did you decide to be straight?

          • So when did you decide to be straight Pete, do you remember where you were?

          • I had excellent role models. (Oh, my!) That's how I was raised, to follow in the footsteps of my ancestors, with my faith in Christ to be my guide. Worked out well, especially for the 7 lovely grandbabies.

          • 7 Grandbabies, good for you I have 6. However, you didn't tell me when you decided to be straight. What was the pivotal point in your life when you made that decision straight-gay, which one? How about the other question-does who you sleep with determine what kind of role model you will be?

          • You are awesome.

          • My socialization began at an early age however it is completely irrelevant as I have the free will to change my mind at any given moment just like I do with many other of my preferences. Who knows what tomorrow has in store for ol' Pete.

        • wow your a peach

  3. A person can be what they want to be: gay, lesbian, or hetero. Just keep your sexual orientation to yourself. What you are is nobody's business but yours.

    • "A person can be what they want to be: gay, lesbian, or hetero." Correction: A person can be what they ARE: gay, lesbian, or hetero. I like the suggestion you give at the end. However, do you expect the same of heterosexuals? Or are you one of those types that only sees the ick factor in homo PDA and not in heteros hanging all over themselves eating each other's faces?

      (Take that with a grain of salt for I may have misconstrued your comment)

  4. The whole deal does not seem to concern anyone until it hits them in the face . Why don't they take it home and put it to bed out of public. Nobody wants to know what they do , so just go away.
    If they want to be in the main stream keep it main stream. If not ,expect the worst.

    • As long as you apply this to heterosexuals also, there should be no problem. And making threats is not acceptable for anyone. Maybe you'd like to clarify what you mean by "or else"

    • Why do you say expect the worst? Is it because a person is sleeping with someone you don't agree with so you feel they should "expect the worst"? They should take the ridicule and hatred from others because of who they sleep with?

      • Speaking only for myself, I agree with him. Being gay represents deviation from the norm, so if you deliberately draw attention that you are not part of the norm, you should not be shocked if you are not immediately accepted by all. After all marriage is an instution and instutions change very very slowly.

        • You are ignoring a fact that does not fit your bias. I've mentioned earlier, it's not deviance and as a matter of fact occurs all through the animal kingdom, not just humans.
          It's a biological drive that has nothing to do with choice.

          • Footlong, for you maybe, being closer to the animal kingdom than the rest of us.

          • You are surely not implying that we are not above animals in our actions, suppose it could be. Do not recall any animals all wound up on such partcipations been around a lot of animals of all varieties have seen even pigs kick the crap out of some of their youngens for fooling around unnaturally.Of coarse they have not risen to our extremely iliberal level.

          • Silace, we all fall under the umbrella "Animal Kingdom" and belong to the mammalian species, unless some of us are aliens from outer space.

          • Even birds recognize the difference and they are not mammals. EVER SEE A HOMO BIRD ? ( MAY BE THEY STAY IN THE CLOSET)

          • Yes I have seen gay birds. There was a documentary about swans who were interested in their own sex.
            The point of the commentary is the question of gay clergy. It is wrong to deny the truth just to be able to discriminate, and it is to the shame of any religious group when it preaches intolerance and hatred.

          • That is the most ludicrous statement. Pigs also roll over their young and crush them, is that for some other moral lapse?
            First you deny being on a level with animals, then you ascribe morals to them.

      • No<.>:folks just do not invite them into their society. So if that is the worst, it can be expected.

  5. It's more like "Hey! Look at us! We're really insignificant!"
    The whole reason queers try to make a non-issue a big national deal is because there are so few of them compared with the total population. Seriously, if people would view their self-proclaimed plight from the measly percent of the total then no one would pay any attention to them at all, which is the way it should be. But if you look in the media, especially here, one would think it is the majority.

    • Being denied the right to get married or to follow a chosen profession is not a non-issue.
      I wonder if you'd still think so if you were treated that way because of who you sleep with.

      • Pedophiles are being denied to marry children, follow their chosen profession because of who they sleep with, and I don't recall anyone complaining about their rights being violated. And don't feed me your bull about how that's different, because time marches and things change. 100 years ago we would not be having this conversation about gay rights. So, tell me, as society, what is that word you like to use, "progresses", what are you going to do when the unacceptable today becomes more accepted? Think about it, 100 years ago if you touched my child you got shot, now it's a slap on the wrist and back in the population.

        • Why in the world do people think of pedophiles when they think of gay people? Do you know that 95% of the pedophiles are straight men? What does that say as a society? If being gay is not illegal, why should they be denied the same rights as you or I? They can be just as wonderful role models as the next person.

          • Hold up there, Granny, you're not getting away with your cheap ploy. This is just your desperate tactic to divert attention away from my counter-point. There is no connection between pedos and gays in my post, both literal or intent and you know it, so if you immediately made a link between pedos and gays, that is your knee-jerk, not mine. Thye point is one preference is okay today, one is not so okay, but it still revolves around the issue of who prefers hanky-panky with who. Rules are rules, right?

          • Hold up there, Granny, you're not getting away with your cheap ploy. This is just your desperate tactic to divert attention away from my counter-point. There is no connection between pedos and gays in my post, both literal or intent and you know it, so if you immediately made a link between pedos and gays, that is your knee-jerk, not mine. The point is one preference is okay today, one is not so okay, but it still revolves around the issue of who prefers hanky-panky with who. Rules are rules, right?

          • Ok, first of all, I am a grandmother of 6 but I am only 49 years old so can it with the "granny bit" and I am not trying a cheap ploy as you say. If you read my post, you would see I said "Why in the world do people think of pedophiles when they think of gay people" I didn't say you? But you were in fact the one to bring up pedophile, I didn't. And why should who anyone sleeps with be anyone elses business. Who's rules are you talking about? Yours, gods, the law? It is not against the law to be gay. I am sure you wouldn't be talking about Gods laws, because if you followed them 100%, you wouldn't be judging anyone, that is not for us to do, only God am I not correct? What you, me or whoever else does in the privacy of our own homes is no one elses business and to deny you a right because you sleep with a woman would be nuts don't you think? Are you going to answer my question. Since you seem to think it's not genetic or a choice, I really would like to know at what point in your life did you choose to be straight? To make a choice, you have to be presented with 2 options correct? ( you know, to choose something). So what was the defining moment when you thought to yourself "self, either I am gay or straight, which will it be?" What was the AH HA moment for you?

          • " I am only 49 years old so can it with the "granny bit"


            You tell'em Grandma of 6

          • Geeze, Grandma, you really are edgy aren't you? Are you sure you're comfortable with all your beliefs?

            When I met my wife for the first time. Had to make a choice right then and there. Best decision I ever made. Is the possibility valid that I could change my preference again? Absolutely. Don't confuse possibility with probability. Gotta run, honey, some of the grand babies are here.

          • Would you have made the same choice if she had been a man ? And if not, why not ?
            Or would you say that you never really had a choice.

          • Have a great night Gramps!

          • Have fun with the grand babies. But don't think your gonna get out of it this easy. I am waiting to hear your answer. You have a great night!

        • There is a complete difference between pedophiles and gay rights.

    • Pete, with all due respect, I really find the term "queers" offensive. And who is insignificant in your eyes? I have family members that are gay and none of them are insignificant. Do you know anyone gay?

      • The qty is a tiny (a.k.a insignificant) % of the total population. Stop looking for malice where there is none. Zero. Zilch. Nada. Nyet. Why is it because we differ in opinions it somehow has to harbor bigotry, hate, and disrespect with some people? Are you so defensive because you are uncomfortable with your own beliefs? Just asking, I've seen it plenty of times before.

        • If you refuse to accept a proven fact to continue to judge someone – that's bias.

        • I am not uncomfortable with my beliefs at all. I do not look for malice. People show it to me before I spot it. When comments are made like "queers" etc, to me that is total disrespect of another person. I will be the first person to disagree with someone, and that's ok if you don't agree. This world would be boring as all get out if everyone agreed with each other. But I try and respect my fellow human being. I am no better or worse than anyone else. Sometimes I slip up and say things I shouldn't. I am not perfect. But I feel disrespect is why this country is where it's at now. Many many people have no compassion for others and they certainly have no respect. I am in no position to judge anyone based on who they sleep with (unless they are committing illegal acts). That's a different story. Why do so many people make it their business to alienate others because of their differences. I thought we were past all of that once we got out of the 70's but I see I am wrong. Many people in this country place a lot of importance on others sex lives and that is very disturbing.

      • Yes, I have 2 gay friends, not absolute best friends, but comfortable to hang around with, and I work for a gay person (who refers to himself as queer, by the way) and yes we have lively philosophical debates over these same questions on a regular basis. Why do you ask?

  6. Interesting debate, most of which has nothing to do with the Lutheran Church changing it's stand on gays in the clergy. If you disagree, don't go there. Now, wasn't that easy. As for me, I don't believe that one's sexual preference makes you better (or worse) than the next preacher/pastor/priest/rabbi..etc. etc. etc. Hatred of anyone seems to fly in the face of the basic message of Christianity, just an observation….

  7. Pete, with all due respect, I really find the term "queers" offensive. And who is insignificant in your eyes?

  8. There is nothing wrong with being gay or lesbian or even transgendered. But if a person chooses to be a preacher and fits into any of the above named groups, he has to be totally hyprocritical as the bible does say that being gay is wrong. That is why the cities of Sodom and Gomorha were destroyed. So how can a person preach what the bible says and not pay attention to that part of the bible, but again Catholic priests had no problem with little boys either did they.

  9. Darn, when i post at nite the monkey wakes up and eats my posts. Got to start posting it all in daytime as the monkey on days doesnt bother my posts.

  10. Seems I have a post that was deleted? I don't recall saying anything that was offensive to anyone. If I did offend anyone, I do apologize. Wish I knew what I said.

  11. Madam, be realistic about this for a change, you and I both know it doesn't have to, but it can, and in many cases it does.

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